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The episode features Dr. Adi Schwartz, a research fellow at the Misgav Institute and the Ben-Gurion Research Institute, and the co-author of the books “The War of Return” and the new sequel, “The October 7th War”. According to Schwartz, the October 7th attack is not a new event in its essence, but rather another manifestation, a particularly cruel and tragic one, of the Palestinian idea of return, which has been at the heart of the conflict for a hundred years.
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The idea of return: Physical and mythological
Schwartz explains that the Palestinian idea of return has two meanings. The first is a physical and practical return: the aspiration of Palestinians to one day return to the lands and homes from before 1948. The key symbol and the “March of Return” in Gaza are concrete expressions of this. The second meaning is mythological: a return in time, back to the era before Zionism and the State of Israel, which is perceived in the Palestinian imagination as a kind of lost paradise. The goal is to erase the existence of the State of Israel, which is the “disaster” in this narrative.
Lessons from October 7th
According to Schwartz, one of the main lessons from the attack is that Israelis must stop lying to themselves. For years, Israel developed fantasies that the Palestinians could be appeased with economic benefits or by finding a “governing alternative” to Hamas. He argues that one must listen carefully to what Palestinians say about their deep-seated goals. While they spread disinformation on many topics, they do not hide their aspiration for return and their non-recognition of the State of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state. He challenges anyone to find a significant Palestinian public figure who has recognized the Jewish right to self-determination and explicitly renounced the demand for return.
No alternative to Hamas
Schwartz claims that the Israeli search for a “governing alternative” to Hamas in Gaza is an illusion. According to him, there is no fundamental ideological difference between Hamas and the majority of the Palestinian public, including Fatah, regarding the core of the conflict: the attitude toward Zionism and the Jewish state. Hamas grew out of Gazan society and reflects its positions. Recent public opinion polls show overwhelming support among Gazans for the continuation of Hamas’s armed struggle. Schwartz emphasizes that in protests in Gaza, criticism of Hamas is heard regarding daily hardships, but there are no calls to stop the war against the Jews.
Sources of Palestinian resilience
Schwartz asks how the Palestinian side, which is militarily and economically weak, has managed to sustain the struggle for a hundred years. The answer, he claims, is not in their own strength but in external support. In the past, this was mainly support from the Arab and Muslim world, but in recent decades, crucial support from the West has been added. Governments, international organizations, and public opinion in the West provide the Palestinians with political, economic, and ideological oxygen that allows them to continue their struggle without compromise. UNRWA, which is funded almost entirely by the West, is a key example of a body that perpetuates the Palestinian narrative instead of solving the refugee problem.
The solution: A multi-front Israeli struggle
The solution, according to Schwartz, is not purely military. Israel must wage a comprehensive struggle on all fronts: military, diplomatic, ideological, and legal. It must initiate a deep, strategic public diplomacy campaign to change the global narrative. The central message should be that the conflict does not stem from the absence of a Palestinian state, but from the refusal of the Arab and Palestinian world to accept the existence of a Jewish state. He criticizes Israeli diplomacy, which he says fails to present this position and continues to react to specific incidents instead of waging a broad ideological campaign.
Optimism and pessimism
Schwartz presents a complex view of the future. On the one hand, he is optimistic from a broad historical perspective. The State of Israel is stronger than ever, and the Sunni Arab world is weaker and more hesitant than in the past. The fact that no Arab country joined the war against Israel is evidence of this. On the other hand, he is pessimistic about the Israeli consciousness. Unlike the 1948 generation, which understood the nature of the existential struggle, many Israelis today tend to believe in “stories” and magic solutions like a “regional alliance” or the “reconstruction of Gaza,” without understanding that the struggle for Israel’s very existence is still ongoing.
The original episode, in Hebrew: ״שיבה באוקטובר״